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Biocrawler talk:Risk disclaimer

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I've drafted this preliminary risk disclaimer and if anyone has any comments I'd be happy to discuss them in detail. I've made it short and relatively untechnical so that most readers will be able to understand that they assume the risk when they use or rely upon Biocrawler information. --- Alex756

It's really professional. Should we change the ALL CAPITALS to SMALL CAPITALS. It's how it's used in the non-legal books I've seen. Quite asthetic. Or would that be oppose to the purpose of the document? --Menchi 03:25 May 11, 2003 (UTC)

I put the two main notices in small caps, but it probably will look better in the inline text. I think the all caps gives the SHOUT better than SHOUT in the large text, is there any way to make the larger notices sans serif? it is really an asthetic issue as long as it gets people's attention quickly then it serves the legal purpose of giving them NOTICE that they can't avoid to read. Alex756 06:02 May 11, 2003 (UTC)

Without the serif? You mean as in Arial font? --Menchi 06:10 May 11, 2003 (UTC)

I've tried looking at this with various sizes on my IE6 browser with 1280x1024 and now (with your suggestions, thanks!) even at the smallest text size under the view menu the large titles are VERY READABLE. Alex756 06:38 May 11, 2003 (UTC)

It's true, some people enjoy reading puny font size, perhaps because their eyesight is so superb. Well, now this oughta take care of them! Now they can't blame us saying that they didn't see it clearly! --Menchi 06:47 May 11, 2003 (UTC)

This is a really bad idea. First it looks very unprofessional to place SCREAMING TEXT at the head of an article, second this page will not be linked from many page that is theoretically "should" but once people know of this page's existence then the lack of such a statement will indicate to them that they should trust the Biocrawler article. This potentially opens us up to lawsuits. It is also a very frowned upon practice to link to Biocrawler-specific pages from within articles since doing so reduces the transportability of our text (meaning any downstream third party user would have to remove all these Biocrawler-specific references). And on top of all that, the text of this page is far too alarmist sounding - it makes Biocrawler look like a dangerous place that shouldn't be trusted at all. This is an overblown mischaracterization.

What is needed is a real general disclaimer linked in the uneditable part of each page where the copyright notice now is. --mav 23:04 20 May 2003 (UTC)

I don't agree with the above comments. The risk disclaimer stated that it was proposed. As well, it is only where DANGEROUS activities are described, not to be used on all pages, and yes, I think IT SHOULD BE VERY PROMINENT AND ANNOYING. As far as your argument that if it is not there it means that they can trust the page, this is also not a very good legal argument. First of all, this is a wiki, anyone who uses it knows that they can edit it.

As far as it being non-professional, what kind of profession is being spoken about? If the writer has an professional qualifications, please cite appropriate authority. Disclaimers are supposed to be annoying, they are supposed to get your attention and they are supposed to tell you to be careful, obviously such an article should not be put on pages that deal with feudalism, but DEFINITELY on pages that deal with autoerotic asphyxiation, bundgie jumping, parachuting, etc.. IT WOULD BE UNPROFESSIONAL NOT TO DO SO. IMHO.

General disclaimers are not necessarily a good idea. Many people do not read them because they are so general and they are just sitting on the bottom of the page. The ideal solution is a click through disclaimer, but I doubt if YOU guys would agree to that. If YOU don't want to put it on the boilerplate page and make it available and someone gets killed, YOU will get sued, not me, and now on top of it there is a history of YOU deciding to take it off when it was offered to YOU. If it is an option and it is available and someone does not use it and then it is the problem only of the people who have edited, not the so-called general wikipedia community (which seems to be about 20 people as far as I can count). This is not as open a community as first appears. USERS BEWARE! Alex756 02:58 21 May 2003 (UTC)

1) if it was proposed then why was it on the boilerplate page? 2) Who defines dangerous? A fundamentalist Christian would think it very dangerous to a person's soul to read our articles on evolution. 3) Disclaimers in the real world of printing are placed behind the cover of the publication ; they are not placed at the head of selected pages. Therefore a link next to our copyright notice is more than enough - esp. if it is linked from every page (which all have the potential problem of reliability due to the fact we are a wiki). 4) It is not immediately apparent that our website is world editable and most people don't even know what a wiki is (I didn't before I landed here and in fact I used Biocrawler as a reference several times before finding out that I could edit the articles here). 4) If they already know anybody can edit any page and place anything on it then there is absolutely no need for a disclaimer at all. Imagine the laughter in the courtroom when the plaintiff explains that he knew this but relied on the information anyway - come on, readers have a responsibility to minimize any foreseeable harm that may come to them (IANAL, BTW). 5) A general disclaimer should be a jumping-off place to our various specific disclaimers. 6) This is the type of thing that should be discussed on the mailing list and decided there before being implemented. 7) The only page the boilerplate was placed on as of yet was on the Goatse.cx. Now I'm not an MD but I'm pretty sure looking at that image is not foreseeablely fatal in any way. 8) An open community doesn't mean we let everyone do anything they want. --mav

1) I don't know, I did not put it there, I just found it there. 2) the Courts define dangerous, mostly judges, sometimes juries, insurance companies influence what dangerous is in legal terms (we are talking about legalities here, no?) 4). Do they know what wikipedia is? I do not think this is a given, if someone hits a page and does not know what Biocrawler is they may just read the text, do you want to encourage people to hurt themselves? 5). Maybe you think everyone is going to spend hours reading disclaimers, I doubt it. 6). Who wrote this "should" where is the rule that it "should" be discussed. How come no one over the last two months that I have posted this has ever directed me to the authority behind the should, remember this is a wiki, anyone can post anything, if you censor it, then perhaps there is a legal recourse there against people who censor things, have you ever thought of that? 7). I have found it placed on at least a half dozen pages as of the writing of this comment, obviously other people see it has merit, are you going to censor them? 8). Exactly, if people are going to post dangerous information the community should point to the person who might just come onto Biocrawler unaware that they are reading an article about risky stuff, movie producers have been sued for putting dangerous stunts in movies that children have then tried to copy. I could not agree with you more, Biocrawler is not a free for all. I am glad we agree. Alex756 18:54, 3 Aug 2003 (UTC)

removed text: On some pages it may be appropriate to link (1) to a risk disclaimer or (2) legal advice disclaimer:

1. On the page you wish to use this risk disclaimer, please link to the following text:

'''[[Biocrawler:risk disclaimer|PLEASE READ THE WIKIPEDIA RISK DISCLAIMER FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY.]]'''

i.e.: PLEASE READ THE WIKIPEDIA RISK DISCLAIMER FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY.

or the shorter alternative: '''CAUTION: [[Biocrawler:risk disclaimer|USE Biocrawler AT YOUR OWN RISK!]]'''

'''CAUTION: [[Biocrawler:risk disclaimer|USE Biocrawler AT YOUR OWN RISK!]]'''

i.e.: USE Biocrawler AT YOUR OWN RISK!

or the even shorter alternative: : '''[[Biocrawler:risk disclaimer|RISK DISCLAIMER]]'''

i.e.: RISK DISCLAIMER

2. For pages on legal topics, link to Biocrawler:Legal advice as follows:

Please note: [[Biocrawler:Legal advice|Biocrawler does not give legal advice]]

i.e.: Please note: Biocrawler does not give legal advice

I'm about to add a link to Biocrawler:General disclaimer to the bottom of every page. Thus is will not be necessary to add the ugly Biocrawler-specific text above to individual articles. --mav 05:00, 3 Jan 2004 (UTC)~

Please link this page to ro:Biocrawler:Disclaimer despre riscuri.

Please link this page to ca:Viquipèdia:Declinació de responsabilitat per perills

Also it:Biocrawler:Disclaimer_sul_rischio. Also I want to request the replacement of

Do not rely upon anything found at Biocrawler

with

You should not rely entirely upon anything found at Biocrawler

--[[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk)]] 02:24, Jul 28, 2004 (UTC)

Contents

1 Risk disclaimer template

2 Interwiki links

3 More disclaimer templates

4 Please add category...

5 Disclaimer templates policy proposal

6 Correction

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Risk disclaimer template

The following was moved from "Template talk:RiskDisclaimer" which was later deleted.

I created this template after noticing that pipe bomb, which happened to be on the front page (about Centennial Olympic Park bombing), had the following ugly line at the end:

Disclaimer

I looked for something less ugly, and found a better one at edible mushroom. Instead of simply copying it, I thought it would be better to turn it into a template.

Feel free to make it better, I still think it's a bit ugly.

Also, I don't know if it would be better at the top (as it was on edible mushroom) or at the bottom (as it was on pipe bomb). Since I copied from edible mushroom, I put it on the top.

Also, should the other disclaimers have templates?

cesarb 22:42, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

No, please don't add these disclaimers. We already have a disclaimers on every page (twice on every page in the non-stanard skins). This was discussed before at Biocrawler talk:Risk disclaimer and I agree completely with what mav said there:

"This is a really bad idea. First it looks very unprofessional to place SCREAMING TEXT at the head of an article, second this page will not be linked from many page that is theoretically "should" but once people know of this page's existence then the lack of such a statement will indicate to them that they should trust the Biocrawler article. This potentially opens us up to lawsuits. It is also a very frowned upon practice to link to Biocrawler-specific pages from within articles since doing so reduces the transportability of our text (meaning any downstream third party user would have to remove all these Biocrawler-specific references). And on top of all that, the text of this page is far too alarmist sounding - it makes Biocrawler look like a dangerous place that shouldn't be trusted at all. This is an overblown mischaracterization."

Angela . 18:12, Jul 29, 2004 (UTC)

I don't care either way, I just created the template to replace the disclaimer on the pair of pages that already had them (and because the one at pipe bomb was really ugly). I added it to mushroom hunting because it is similar to edible mushroom and either both should have a disclaimer, or none of them. I never intended to add it anywhere else (unless I found another page with a link to the Risk Disclaimer, which I would then replace with the template).

If you think adding them is innapropriate, it might be a good idea to add a notice at the top of the talk page of the disclaimers telling people to not add unnecessary links to them. Now that I know that kind of link should not exist (and I agree, they are ugly -- that's why I created the template, to make it easier to make them less ugly with a single change), I will simply remove them if I see another one.

Feel free to do whatever you want to this template -- speedy, vfd, delete it yourself. You can copy this discussion to a related talk page (mine, the disclaimer's, or somewhere else), or simply delete it together with the template.

cesarb 23:35, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Just a small comment: the last, bolded line on this page is ungrammatical. Rather than a comma, it should hava a period or a semi-colon. It's locked, so I can't change it, but someone who can should. Remes 03:44, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Fixed. --Slowking Man 10:43, Jan 1, 2005 (UTC)

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Interwiki links

Please add a link to the Vietnamese version (currently being translated). You'll have to use the following code, since Unicode isn't supported here:

[[vi:Biocrawler:T%E1%BB%B1 m%E1%BA%A1o hi%E1%BB%83m khi d%C3%B9ng]]

Thanks. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs, blog (http://mxn.f2o.org/index.html)) 04:56, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Actually, please add the following lines, which include the Vietnamese one, since I've found a few more translations of this page:

[[ca:Viquipèdia:Declinació de responsabilitat per perills]]
[[da:Biocrawler:Risikoforbehold]]
[[hu:Wikipédia:Kockázatok kizárása]]
[[pt:Biocrawler:Aviso de Risco]]
[[ro:Biocrawler:Disclaimer despre riscuri]]
[[sv:Biocrawler:Förbehåll för risker]]
[[vi:Biocrawler:T%E1%BB%B1 m%E1%BA%A1o hi%E1%BB%83m khi d%C3%B9ng]]
[[zh-cn:Biocrawler:风险声明]]
[[zh-tw:Biocrawler:風險聲明]]

Thanks. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs, blog (http://mxn.f2o.org/index.html)) 05:04, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

All done. jni 08:20, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

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