Biocrawler talk:Edit summary

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Contents

1 Common keyboard shortcuts 2 Flagging edit as Minor edit 3 Asterisk in summary field 4 Demanding summary field use? 5 Summary compulsory for anon users? 6 Section title as automatic edit summary 7 What to do after erroneous summary 8 Examples of Edit Summaries 9 Edit summaries as policy 10 Use of edit summaries in disputes 11 Forcing summaries 12 Edit summary & wikifying expectations

Common keyboard shortcuts

For some of us, we need to use ALT-A to select all, instead of CTRL-A. Can you work that in nicely without cluttering too much? I don't know of any where the others won't work for sure, that's the one I know of from personal experience. -- John Owens

I think the whole comment "(CTRL-A, CTRL-C, TAB, CTRL-V, TAB, SPACE, ENTER for mouse-free operation)" is more confusing than handy, experienced computer users will be familiar with these shortcuts, and this is also not-relevant to the subject of the article. -- Rotem Dan 23:10 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)

I can definitely see your point, I guess when I remarked about "not cluttering too much", I kind of had that in mind, but I do think it would be nice to keep it somewhere. Perhaps a "Tricks for advanced users" kind of section? -- John Owens 23:15 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)

I think a "list of common keyboard shortcuts on windows systems" would be more accurate.. :) This is it, i'm removing this clutter.. -- Rotem Dan 23:19 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)

I have no idea what this is all about or how to use the editing functions. I wanted to correct a sentence in the Cahokia article (a verb is missing). But I couldn't figure out the instructions and wound up here (Where am I?). Couldn't Wik make things easier or clearer instead of saying 'It's soo easy.'

Flagging edit as Minor edit

I can't see any mention of how to flag an edit as a minor edit (so it gets that 'M' in the recent changes list) - a) can someone tell me how? b) can it be added to this article if relevant? -- S

I added the answer to Biocrawler:How to edit a page, you have to log in. - Patrick 15:08 26 May 2003 (UTC)

Asterisk in summary field

In summary/revision history, some people put * in front of their summary. What does the asterisk signify? --Menchi 22:03 Feb 12, 2003

Most likely, nothing at all. An older version of the wiki software put an asterisk in the summary field in the edit form by default, and some people forgot to delete it when typing in their own text. --Brion

Demanding summary field use?

Has there been any discussion of this (recently)? Occasionally checking Page History lists, I find it progressively annoying that some people don't summarize their edits. With User:<username> pages exempt, should one implement some sort of 'reminder' system, say a message popping up when a user tries to Save Page with nothing in the Summary field? Just airing the thought (sorry if there's loads of discussion on this in some FAQ/archive I've ignored). Even a meager "misc" or "more info" is better than nothing! --Wernher 09:48, 16 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Yes, there has been some previous discussion. But I haven't seen this suggestion before and I think it's a good one. I never leave the comment off except by accident, but then I can't add it. So a reminder would be great. Andrewa 12:46, 16 Dec 2003 (UTC)

What pisses me off is that some of most experienced Biocrawlerns (many of which are sysops) don't do it! It is just one word or two! Type! :-) --Menchi (Talk)â 12:49, 16 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Oh I hear people talking a bout me! Yes, I recognize that I am seldom filling the field, but I have to admit that it does not bother me when people leave it empty also. If a majority feels that this field should be filled, then we could imagine having a function asking to add a summary before the change can be saved. olivier 13:24, Dec 16, 2003 (UTC)

You have my vote for making an edit summary mandatory. (Even though I don't always give one) --snoyes 15:00, 16 Dec 2003 (UTC)

edit summary contains our current guidelines (not rules, not laws). If you want to make a feature request, go to wikipedia:bug reports or to meta, as noted in the introduction to the pump.

I recommend a two-pronged approach. Firstly, model the behaviour you desire in others - make sure you always fill out meaningful summaries.

Secondly, when a lack of edit summary causes you problems, go over to the user talk page of the person in question, and gently explain the problems you've been having, and ask if they would try to include an edit summary in future. Be polite, and don't make an issue of it, but don't be afraid to ask.

You'd be surprised how effective gentle persuasion can be - typically far more effective than any form of coercion, or trying to "lay down the law". It won't work on everyone, but it can really help to shift the balance, and make life more pleasant and more productive.Martin 19:37, 16 Dec 2003 (UTC)

###note###: this is a response written long after the original thread was first active; the next original thread entry is marked like this text

Here's my attempt at a friendly (?) persuasion boilerplate text, and one response I got recently...

«Hi! Just some advice from a co-wikipedian with common interests (<topic>): it would be super-nice if everybody took a couple of seconds to fill in the summary field after editing articles (e.g. fixing typos -- in fact, especially then), so all the watchlist users didn't have to check the diff to find out what has changed. Saves us all a little annoyance and some time. No need for a doctoral thesis in the summary, of course, just some short abbrevs will do, like "typo" etc.» --Wernher <time stamp> (hmm, perhaps I should've included a smiley?)

«For an open community, there sure seem to be a lot people who like to tell others what to do. Tell you what, I'm sorry I upset you, so I've made my last edit and written my last article on Wiki. Your loss. Goodbye.» <user name, time stamp>

Mind you, the not-so-friendly non-summary-field-using respondent later removed the whole text incl his response, and has contributed loads of edits since, so I guess he either regained his temper or just pulled my leg in the first place. However, I can't really know, so I wonder if I should post a kind of apology at his talk page (risking to provoke him even more... hard call). BTW, do you think my boilerplate text was patronizing or in any other way rudely written? I promise not to respond like the guy I p*d off :-) --Wernher 19:11, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Update: I sent an explanation/apology to said wikipedian; he has now told me he had a seriously bad day when he first responded, and now that he's thought about it supports the view of remembering to fill in summaries. To wrap it up, he lifted my spirits quite a lot by exhibiting brilliant 'wikipedihaviour'! I will, however, try to formulate my boilerplate text even more friendly, to avoid the risk of more or less 'sounding like a schoolteacher'. :-) --Wernher 20:33, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

###note###: original thread continues

Thanks for commenting; I try to behave as sort a of 'role model' (hmmm... feeling the weight on my shoulders already... phew...) when summarizing my edits, small or (very occasionally) large. As for gentle persuasion, ideal as that solution may be, I feel that it would be quite exhausting to explain the 'right thing to do' to each and every non-summarizing contributor crossing my path... (like any [borderline] Wikipedaholic I check a lot of summaries during an edit binge).

What I feel we might need is some sort of gentle automated persuasion, perhaps in the form of preferably 1) a stern and visually striking reminder located next to the summary field, or if that didn't help, 2) a pop-up'ish thing of the same character (although I rather detest such invasive in-yer-face messages, and I absolutely see, as noted by Merphant, the danger of stimulating the entry of 'ahsffdghfh'-like summaries -- in other words, a good old arms race...). --Wernher 05:16, 17 Dec 2003 (UTC)

You don't have to persuade everyone - just a few people, as and when. Others will do the same. It'll happen slowly. Automated persusasion just lacks that human touch, in my experience. Martin 18:14, 17 Dec 2003 (UTC)

What I'd like to see are more useful edit summaries. A summary that only says "comment" for a talk page edit, for example, is obvious and redundant. Also sometimes people make huge summaries for one character changes, like "removed the unnecessary apostrophe between 'of' and 'the' in the second paragraph of the ==History== section". I guess something is better than nothing, although I predict that having mandatory edit summaries would lead to more summaries like 'sdfdgdfsg' and 'change'. -- Merphant 21:36, 16 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Nothing wrong with huge summaries. They help build trust (especially when the summary matches the edit ;-)). Also "comment" isn't redundant - there are many things I do on talk pages that aren't making comments. :) Martin 22:36, 16 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Summary compulsory for anon users?

I would like to suggest that it be made compulsory for anonymous users to put something (anything!) in the edit summary box. I would like to make it compulsory for everyone but I'm willing to start small and work up. --Phil 11:02, Mar 4, 2004 (UTC)

Apart from the "start small and work up" idea, is there any other reason why only anonymous users should be made to do this ? I'd prefer making the summary compulsory for everyone for non-minor edits. Or if that is frowned upon, at least make it compulsory for long pages like Village pump and Vfd. Jay 15:03, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Jay, if it's only for minor edits, I think all that will encourage is for people to mark major edits as minor, rather than explain them in detail. Sorry to be pessimistic. Jwrosenzweig 16:47, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I surpose making it compulsury for anon users to add a sumary might help curb vandalism, as people putting rubbish in the article are likely to do the same in the summary box making it easier to spot. But I wouldn't support making it compulsury for logged in users. G-Man 20:43, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I concur with the original post - I'd like to see it mandatory for *all* edits, but I'm willing to start with anon users. I agree with the point about differentiating between minor and non-minor edits, though. Noel 00:10, 6 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Agreed. Edit summaries should be made mandatory imnsho. Jor 20:24, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Forcing anons to preview a page before being presented with a save button would also be a good idea. --mav 05:13, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Force everyone to preview pages before they can save their edits. I know it would probably benefit me. Failing that, make hitting Enter preview rather than save -- so far I have twice saved half-edited page when my finger slipped while I was summarizing. --Charles A. L. 21:36, Mar 8, 2004 (UTC)

Make always previewing the default but allow registered users to override in preferences. Jor 20:24, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I would suggest making it compulsory for everyone but anons. That way, the blank edit summaries indicative of vandalism will stand out more. --Carnildo 06:28, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Edit summaries are currently required of all users. Hyacinth 21:54, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Section title as automatic edit summary

I noticed this change, i.e. including the section title automatically, when editing tonight; strangely I haven't seen any discussion of this feature whatsoever before it was implemented -- could someone point me to the relevant page which I missed? I was on the brink of suggesting such a feature myself, so first of all I want to say I'm very happy with the concept.

Why do I mention this? Well, I might be interested in participating in such a discussion, which I assume has taken place somewhere (in the wikimedia domain, perhaps? I must admit to not having checked very much of that area yet). For instance, I would suggest using something else (almost anything, in fact) than parentheses for delimiting the section title in the summary field, for clarity/esthaetic reasons.

How about single or double hyphens or something, like --section title-- , which would look like (--section title-- user's own text) in history lists. I feel that such delimiters would be better than the current ((section title) user's own text). Or perhaps something other than hyphens would be even better. No matter, I would like to know where to discuss it, anyway :-)--Wernher 00:44, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)

See Biocrawler:Village_pump#Auto-Summary_and_Preview.--Patrick 01:11, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Yep, did, tnx! Now the format is great, by my preferences -- which is what counts. ;-) --Wernher 22:58, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I don't think this "automatic edit summary" is a good feature. Many times people may make a drastic change, or a very minor change, and either way the edit summary is just something like /* Section 8 */. Having the Edit summary already "filled out" frees them, in their minds, from the responsibility of telling other people what they have done. P0M 01:59, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

What to do after erroneous summary

Hi,

I just made a change to a page, and I forgot to put a summary in the box. That's bad, because it could be a controversial change, and I don't want it to look like I was trying to sneak it in. What do you do if you need to put a summary in afterwards? Creidieki 03:42, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

See [1] (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing#Dummy_edit).--Patrick 11:43, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Examples of Edit Summaries

It is would be very helpful if this article included examples of good edit summaries, or links to good examples. I'm never sure just how much to put in the summary field.

Is the goal of the summary to give enough info so that an editor does not feel the need to check the exact changes?

Yes, "Accurate summaries help people decide whether it is worthwhile for them to check a change." Hyacinth 18:09, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I think this is one place where it may be unwise to give too much instruction. I almost never think this! But edit summaries are read by editors who then often make a decision not to check the actual edit. This implies trust. Certain wordings in edit summaries brand editors as novices or Old Heads, even if the editing-editor is not known personally to the checking-editor.

Experience -- sheer time spent editing -- is what teaches an editor the accepted style for edit summaries. It does not take much experience, nor is this hard to acquire -- just read a few dozen history pages. But the rank newbie sock puppet has not yet done this, and is unable to imitate Old Head style -- therefore, cannot trash a page and carefully mark it m -- typo.

In any case, I think specific examples abound on said history pages. As for what is good and what is not good, well, do we need anyone to tell us these things? — Xiong (talk) 01:23, 2005 Mar 30 (UTC)

Edit summaries as policy

I oppose making it required to fill edit summaries. I prefer making it a recommendation or at least saying it is helpful to do so. Peter O. (Talk) 04:00, Jan 8, 2005 (UTC)

I support edit summaries remaining required. Why do you oppose their requirement? And do you mean required by policy or technology? Hyacinth 17:59, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

If edit summaries were required by technology, edit histories would just be filled with (asdf) and (hjkl) and similar gibberish. If they were strictly required by policy, well, I don't think that policy would be followed.

Gibberish is as useful as a blank line and doesn't hurt us at all, whereas if any people are encouraged to provide more edit summaries we are better off than before. Hyacinth 18:06, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

It's stated as a guideline (not, significantly, as a rule). I don't think there's that much practical difference here, just semantics. Nobody is proposing to have the software refuse edits with empty summary fields. The point of this policy is to get people to use their good sense in communicating with other editors, not draconian enforcement. --Michael Snow 19:16, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC) (who did not provide an edit summary, instead lazily relying on the auto-filled section title)

What are you talking about? What "draconian enforcement"? It is currently stated as a guideline, but was not when this discussion started. Hyacinth 01:04, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

What I meant is that the section heading is "Guidelines", and has been for a long time. Sorry for the confusion, but I wasn't referring to the particular wording of the instruction. The way it was before was already acceptable. --Michael Snow 04:21, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I also preferred the way it was before. I'll change it back. Noel (talk) 23:35, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Being frustrated by the above discussion I typed up a section to take User:Nunh-huh's requested vote and then wondered if it would be in an acceptable format. However, Biocrawler:Voting, rather than informing me of the correct manner, location, and format for voting, discourages voting (and does nothing else). So I went to Biocrawler:Policy#How_are_policies_decided?. All of these pages suggest that we are arguing semantics and the comments of everyone, myself include, on this page indicate we are ignorant of actual policy and procedures. Hyacinth 00:16, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Use of edit summaries in disputes

This article seems to have been the target of frequent vandalism -- I must imagine by sock puppets standing in for banned users. In any case, it looks to me as if an important section has been mangled inadvertently in the course of frequent reverts.

As you may gather from my comment above in Examples of Edit Summaries, I think most of this article is, at best, unnecessary. If you spend much time editing, you will learn quickly by example. The important points, because so widely ignored (which therefore means the examples are not always good ones) are that edits should almost always have summaries; and (subject of this section) that summaries not be used to annoy other users or inflame unstable atmospheres. So, I've tried to restore the last intelligible text, correct grammar, and format it to give it the prominence it deserves. — Xiong (talk) 01:43, 2005 Mar 30 (UTC)

Forcing summaries

If, like me, you forget to write edit summaries, then the following code, added to your monobook.js, should help:

function addForceSummary(){
    if(!/&action=edit/.test(window.location.href)) return;
    if(/&section=new/.test(window.location.href)) return;
    if(!document.forms.editform) return;
    document.forms.editform.wpSave.onclick = forceSummary;
}

function forceSummary(){
    if(!document.forms.editform.wpSummary.value.replace(/(^ +)|( +$)/g,'').replace(/^\/\*.*\*\/ */,'')){
      var r = prompt('Are you sure you want to submit without adding a summary?\nTo add a summary, type it in the box below:',document.forms.editform.wpSummary.value);
      if(r == null) return false;
      document.forms.editform.wpSummary.value = r;
    }
    return true;
}

if (window.addEventListener) window.addEventListener("load",addForceSummary,false);
else if (window.attachEvent) window.attachEvent("onload",addForceSummary);

Note that this pops up a dialog if the edit summary is blank or only contains the automatic text (/* something */). – ABCD 14:16, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Edit summary & wikifying expectations

Someone who knows that the outcome of "[external URL]" in the edit summary doesn't return "[n]" should explain this and other differences for we newbies. Thanks, hydnjo talk 23:13, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

In other words, since we can't Show preview the "Edit summary" it is sometimes an unintended surprise! ;-) hydnjo talk 23:27, 6 May 2005 (UTC)